Design Smarter: Why Above-the-Fold Doesn’t Mean What You Think

In this episode of the Trivera Deep Dive, Chip and Nova tackle one of web design’s most debated...and misunderstood...concepts: “above the fold.” While many marketers and clients fixate on squeezing everything important into the top of the page, the truth is more nuanced—and more powerful.

Chip and Nova walk through the real goal of your website’s pages (hint: it’s not about visibility, it’s about motivation), and they explain why scroll behavior, user intent, and smart design are far more important than pixel placement. You’ll hear insights from Trivera founder Tom Snyder along with practical perspectives from designers Jen Elias and Stephanie Senechal—both of whom have long been designing with strategy in mind, not myths.

If you’ve ever argued with a stakeholder about cramming content above the fold, this episode gives you the ammo you need to change the conversation—and the results.

Read the Blog: Design Smarter: Why 'Above the Fold' Doesn’t Mean What You Think

Transcript

[Chip]
Ugh, seriously. Are we still talking about above-the-fold? I feel like I see this debate resurface,
like, every year. 

[Nova]
Tell me about it. It's the zombie argument of web design, isn't it? Just keeps coming back. 

[Narrator]
Welcome to Trivera AI Deep Dive Podcast, hosted by Chip and Nova, our AI co-hosts. Together, they
transform top marketing insights from our blogs, articles, and events into actionable strategies you
can use. Ready to dive in? Let's get started. 

[Chip]
Welcome everyone, to this Trivera Deep Dive. I'm Chip. 

[Nova]
And I'm Nova. 

[Chip]
And today, yeah, we're digging into that topic that just won't go away. The whole discussion around
what shows up above-the-fold on a website. 

[Nova]
And our jumping off point for this is a, uh, a really insightful blog post on Trivera.com. It's
called Design Smarter: Why Above the Fold Doesn't Mean What You Think, from Trivera founder, our
own Tom Snyder, as our guide. 

[Chip]
Right. Now, our goal today, just to be clear, isn't really to, like, declare fold is dead or fold is
king. 

[Nova]
No, definitely not. 

[Chip]
It's more about unpacking why this is still a thing people argue about. And maybe more importantly,
sharing what our team here at Trivera has actually learned from, you know, years of work and
looking at the data. 

[Nova]
Mm-hmm. 

[Chip]
We want to give you a clearer picture of what really matters in web design- 

[Nova]
Yeah 

[Chip]
... you know, beyond just where that screen cuts off initially. 

[Nova]
So, the blog post kicks off with Tom admitting something pretty interesting, right? He's been on,
like, both sides of this fence over his career. 

[Chip]
Yeah. 30 years, he says. So, what were those two sides? What was the shift? 

[Nova]
Well, initially, he was very much in that camp of, you know, everything critical, the main message,
the contact info, the big call to action, it had to be right there. Instantly visible, no scroll
needed. 

[Chip]
The classic print mindset, almost. 

[Nova]
Exactly. But then, over time, he kind of shifted. He started arguing that, you know, users do
scroll. We see them do it, and maybe this obsession with the fold was, well, a bit outdated. 

[Chip]
Which makes sense. We don't read websites like newspapers anymore. 

[Nova]
Not at all. And the key thing Tom stresses right up front is that the truth here is, well, it's
complicated. It's nuanced. It's- 

[Chip]
Okay, so what makes it complicated? What factors does he mention? 

[Nova]
He lists quite a few. Things like, obviously, the device someone's using, phone versus desktop. 

[Chip]
Huge difference right there. 

[Nova]
Totally. Screen size too. 

[Chip]
Huh. 

[Nova]
But also, who the user is, what the content is, where the traffic's coming from, and crucially,
what's the actual purpose of that specific page. 

[Chip]
Right. It's not a one-size-fits-all rule, is it? What works for a big e-commerce homepage? 

[Nova]
No. It's probably terrible for, say, a highly specialized B2B service page. 

[Chip]
Exactly. So, why does this debate keep popping back up then? What's Tom's take in the post? 

[Nova]
Well, he points to a few things. One is just people get really passionate about their design
opinions. 

[Chip]
Oh, yeah. Design tribalism, he calls it. 

[Nova]
Mm-hmm. See that. And then there's the fact that a lot of the arguments are just recycled. The same
talking points, often without any, you know, actual data backing them up. 

[Chip]
Like those endless arguments you see on social media. 

[Nova]
Yeah. 

[Chip]
All soundbites, no substance. 

[Nova]
Pretty much, yeah. He kind of makes that comparison. It's just noise sometimes. 

[Chip]
Which leads nicely into, you know, how we actually approach this at Trivera, based on what we see
working. 

[Nova]
Right. And our colleague, Jen Elias has a really practical viewpoint on this, just from her
experience building sites. What's her take on that magical fold line, and how does she think about
those big homepage images versus, say, headers on inside pages? 

[Chip]
Yeah, Jen's pretty direct. She agrees, you know, there's no magic line. But she does have some
practical thoughts, like she tends to use those big, splashy hero images mainly for homepages. 

[Nova]
Okay. Why is that? 

[Chip]
Her thinking is it's like a billboard, right? 

[Nova]
Mm-hmm. 

[Chip]
A quick visual cue, this is what this place is about. But for the inside pages, she usually goes for
much shorter headers. 

[Nova]
To avoid pushing the main content down. 

[Chip]
Exactly. To get people to the information they came for faster, without unnecessary scrolling just
to get past the banner. 

[Nova]
And that's based on experience, right? Seeing what works, not just following a rule. 

[Chip]
Totally. It's practical, not ideological. 

[Nova]
Hmm. 

[Chip]
Then, uh, Stephanie Senichal chimes in with a more data-heavy perspective. What's her kind of yes
and no answer about the fold? 

[Nova]
Stephanie's is the classic, "It depends," which honestly is often the right answer in web design. 

[Chip]
Ah, true. 

[Nova]
She says it really hinges on the specific page, and this is key, the amount of traffic it gets. 

[Chip]
Oh, okay, so how does traffic play into it? 

[Nova]
Her data suggests that for, like, smaller sites, lower traffic pages, what people see initially
tends to matter more. They might not explore as much. 

[Chip]
Okay. 

[Nova]
But for really high traffic pages, like the Potawatomi Hotel & Casino homepage example she uses,
their heat maps told a different story. 

[Chip]
Heat maps are so useful for seeing what people actually do. So, what did they show for Potawatomi? 

[Nova]
Really interesting stuff. They saw engagement, like clicks and attention way down the page, even in
the footer. 

[Chip]
Wow. Okay, so people definitely scrolled? 

[Nova]
Oh, absolutely. But she also notes while engagement was widespread, the very, very bottom of the
page still got fewer overall views, fewer impressions. 

[Chip]
So, people scroll, they interact lower down, but that initial view still gets the most eyeballs
overall? 

[Nova]
Exactly. It's not just if they scroll, but how that engagement is distributed. It's nuanced. 

[Chip]
Right. 

[Nova]
And this isn't guesswork, right? It's based on tracking actual user behavior. 

[Chip]
Right. And Stephanie shared a great example of applying these insights, didn't she? The, uh, MMSD
rain facility page. 

[Nova]
Yeah. 

[Chip]
What was the strategy there? 

[Nova]
Yeah. That was a cool one. So, for the Milwaukee Metropolitan Sewerage District, on the specific
page about a rain facility, the team really wanted users to engage with content lower down
specifically about the facility's capacity. 

[Chip]
Okay, it makes sense. 

[Nova]
So, instead of, like, a massive redesign, they did something pretty clever. They added a button
right in the main hero section up top- 

[Chip]
Mm-hmm 

[Nova]
... that acted as an anchor link. It basically jumped the user directly down the page to that
specific capacity section. 

[Chip]
Ah, neat. Like an internal shortcut? 

[Nova]
Yeah. 

[Chip]
So, did it work? What was the result? 

[Nova]
Yep. Stephanie said it worked exactly as planned. They saw a clear, measurable increase in
interaction with that specific section they were targeting. 

[Chip]
That's great. It shows you can be strategic without just cramming everything above some imaginary
line. 

[Nova]
Precisely. It's about guiding the user effectively. 

[Chip]
Okay. Fantastic stuff.... we need to take a quick pause here. When we come back, Nova and I are
going to dive deeper into the specifics around forms, calls-to-action, 'cause that's a big part of
this debate, and look at some effective tactics that go beyond just worrying about the fold. Don't
go anywhere. 

[Webster]
Hi, I'm Webster, Trivera's AI assistant, here to help businesses like yours thrive in the
ever-changing digital landscape. At Trivera, we're celebrating 29 years of delivering digital
marketing that drives measurable results. Since 1996, we've partnered with southeastern Wisconsin's
strongest brands, blending creativity, strategy, and cutting-edge technology, like me, to produce
success you can measure. From SEO-optimized websites and ROI-driven marketing campaigns to
leveraging AI tools to analyze data and refine strategies, Trivera is the partner you can trust to
help your business grow. Now, as we enter our 30th year, we're more committed than ever to pushing
boundaries and redefining what's possible in digital marketing. With decades of experience and the
power of AI on the team, we're ready to help you tackle whatever's next. Visit trivera.com today,
and let's make 2025 the year your business thrives. Trivera, where nearly three decades of expertise
meet the latest in technology to deliver digital marketing that converts. 

[Narrator]
Welcome back to Trivera's AI Deep Dive. Now, back to our conversation with Chip and Nova. 

[Nova]
And we're back on the Trivera Deep Dive. Before the break, Chip and I were talking about how the
whole above-the-fold concept in web design is, uh, well, a lot more complex than it seems. 

[Chip]
Right. So now we wanna get into some specifics, especially around forms and calls-to-action, CTAs,
because that's where a lot of the arguments happen. What does the blog post say the data tells us
here? 

[Nova]
This is where it gets really practical. The post points out that, yes, CTAs placed above the fold
can convert better. 

[Chip]
Okay. 

[Nova]
But, and this is a big but, that's often when the user already has some level of intent. You know?
Like returning visitors or people clicking through from a very specific ad, or maybe signing up for
a newsletter they already know about. 

[Chip]
Ah, so they're already primed to act. They know what they want. 

[Nova]
Exactly. If you click an ad that says, "Get 20% off," you expect to see that offer and the button
right away. Makes sense, right? 

[Chip]
Totally. But what about when people are still figuring things out- 

[Nova]
Yeah 

[Chip]
... learning about a service? 

[Nova]
Right. And the post makes that distinction. For those longer consideration pads, where someone's
still researching, asking for a big commitment, like filling out a long form right at the top, can
actually backfire. They need the context first. They need to understand the value. 

[Chip]
Mm-hmm. You need to earn that conversion. 

[Nova]
Yeah. And it mentions tools we use, like Crazy Egg or Hotjar. They show visually, yes, people do
tend to focus more on what they see first. 

[Chip]
Just natural human behavior. 

[Nova]
Right. That initial area gets priority. But it doesn't mean they don't scroll or engage further
down. 

[Chip]
Okay, so that initial space is valuable, but maybe not for the reason people originally thought.
It's about first impressions and orientation, perhaps. 

[Nova]
Could be. And there was that HubSpot study mentioned too, right? About moving a form higher up? 

[Chip]
Yeah, they moved a form higher and apparently got a, what was it? 27% increase in leads, which
sounds huge. 

[Nova]
Yeah, it does. But there was a critical catch, wasn't there? 

[Chip]
Mm-hmm. That increase only happened when users already understood the value proposition. 

[Nova]
Right. If they didn't get what they were signing up for, just shifting the form's position didn't
magically make them convert. Context is king. 

[Chip]
So, context, user intent. 

[Chip]
It's all interconnected. Okay, so given all that, what are some of the actual tactics that do work,
according to the post? Smarter design approaches? 

[Nova]
Well, it outlines a few good ones. One is using those slimmer, more concise hero sections that
clearly state the value, but then also include anchor links. 

[Chip]
Like the MMSD example. 

[Nova]
Exactly. Links that help users navigate down to specific details easily. Another tactic is using
sticky headers or maybe floating CTAs, things that stay visible as you scroll down. 

[Chip]
So the option to act is always there, but not necessarily demanding attention right at the top. 

[Nova]
Right. And then there's scroll-triggered content. You know, where elements animate or appear as you
scroll? That can make the journey down the page more engaging. 

[Chip]
Okay, so those are specific techniques. But what's the bigger idea, the underlying principle behind
them? 

[Nova]
I think the core idea is designing to earn that click or earn the scroll. It's about giving people
reasons, value, clarity, good information design that make them want to keep interacting. 

[Chip]
Rather than just sticking things above an arbitrary line because some old rule book said so? 

[Nova]
Exactly. It's about ditching outdated best practices that aren't backed by current data or context
and focusing on the user journey. 

[Chip]
So, wrapping this all up then. What is Trivera's official stance on the fold based on Tom's post? Do
we have one? 

[Nova]
Well, as the post says pretty clearly, we don't really have a fixed stance. We have a strategy. 

[Chip]
Okay. And that strategy is? 

[Nova]
It's based on data. It's based on understanding actual user behavior for that specific client and
their audience. And it's based on the goals of the website and the specific page. 

[Chip]
So lots of AB testing, looking at heat maps, that kind of thing? 

[Nova]
Absolutely. We rely heavily on tools like heat maps to see what's really happening, and we advocate
for AB testing when it makes sense to let the users tell us what works best. We're always willing to
be wrong if the data points another way. 

[Chip]
So it's not about automatically putting the form high or low. It's- 

[Nova]
Yeah 

[Chip]
... thinking it through each time. 

[Nova]
Totally. Sometimes high up is right. Sometimes you need to build context first. Sometimes the main
CTA belongs right in the hero. Other times, you nurture the user down the page. 

[Chip]
Right. 

[Nova]
But whatever the layout, the ultimate focus, our focus, is always on designing experiences that win
trust, grab attention, and ultimately drive ask-nation because those are the results that matter. 

[Chip]
Well said. So, as you can probably tell, this whole above-the-fold thing- 

[Nova]
Mm-hmm 

[Chip]
... it's really less about a simple rule- 

[Nova]
Yeah 

[Chip]
... and much more about truly understanding your users, how they behave online, and what the
specific goals for your website are. 

[Nova]
Yeah, it really just boils down to designing thoughtfully, using the data you have available, and
not just, you know, blindly following advice that might be decades out of date. 

[Chip]
Absolutely. 

[Nova]
Yeah. 

[Chip]
And if you're still kind of grappling with these questions for your own site, or maybe you're just
ready to move past these old arguments and focus on what actually drives results, well, that's what
our team at Trivera does. We work with clients every day on this. 

[Nova]
We help develop those data-driven digital strategies. We really dive into understanding your users
and designing experiences that lead to real, meaningful action. 

[Chip]
So if you're interested in learning more about how Trivera approaches web design, digital marketing,
all of that, head over to trivera.com. 

[Nova]
Yeah, we've definitely moved on from just arguing about the fold. We can help you figure out what
really matters for your success. 

[Chip]
And maybe here's a final thought to leave you with. Think about the last website you visited, maybe
even today. What was the very first thing that grabbed your attention? And did you scroll? Did you
have to scroll to find what you needed? What does your own behavior tell you about how web design
keeps changing? 

[Nova]
Well, thanks so much for tuning into this Trivera Deep Dive, everyone. 

[Chip]
We really hope you found this look into the above-the-fold conversation helpful, maybe cleared up
some of the fog around it. 

[Nova]
And if you did find it useful, please do subscribe to the podcast. That way, you'll be sure to catch
our next Deep Dive. 

[Narrator]
Thanks for joining us on Trivera's AI Deep Dive with Chip and Nova. If you enjoyed this episode, you
can find more and stay up to date with new episodes wherever you listen to podcasts, or find them on
our website and our social media channels. And don't forget to visit us at trivera.com to learn how
we can help take your marketing to the next level. Ready to talk? Reach out. We'd love to hear from
you. See you next time.